July 09, 2005.07.09.05. - KotL challenge [july moot pt 8][forum]
(grand elder)
Another Challenge and the Grand Elder now faces Electric Jedi, of the Obsidian Data, who challenges for Keeper of the Land."There is an area I have marked in the caern. It resists all efforts to be cleaned up and thus remains a hulking mess of rust and chemical disgust. It is not a large area, and should be easy for the Keeper to deal with, yet it is not. You have a week.
And please remember, Electric Jedi, you challenged for this position, alone."
[OOC whatnotery: You've a week to decide how to tackle the problem, and well, tackle it. Email me at werewolf@chicagodusk.com or grab me on AIM for any questions or scenes needed. A forum post can be made at the end of the week with what was figured out, what was done, and again, it will be put to the vote of the Council whether she is able to hold the position.]
(electric jedi)
*The challenge was given and she agreed to it. She spent the first day at the caern, looking over the pile, thinking in her head how she would deal with this challenge, going through her knowledge and recent learnings, formulating things in her mind.**The next night, rather than returning to the caern, Jedi went into the bathroom of the pack house and focused herself til she slipped sideways into the umbra. Then she climbed up on the roof of her shop/pack house in the umbral reflection, and looked around. Using the gift given by wireless bat, she glided from rooftop to rooftop using the folds of thin skin given by bat. She searched rooftop to rooftop til she found who she was looking for. One of the first spirits Ewan had been teaching her about was Mockingbird. As a city spirit, Mockingbird knew english and spirit speech. He said they would be handy for the right price til she learned spirit speech herself.*
*She found a small Mockingbird spirit nested on a ledge and glided down. She sat on the ledge and smiled to Mockingbird* Nice night isn't it?
*the little spirit tilted her head at Jedi* Nice, yes. Help you I can?
*Jedi nodded, smiling softly* Actually yes. I need your help, beautiful Mockingbird. You are skilled and wise in the language of the spirits where I am not. I need to find and speak with 2 spirits in particular. Please help me for 1 week's time and I will give you an offering of gnosis at the end of the week. For especially good help me in these talks, I will give you 2 offerings. (each offering equals 1 gnosis)
(WP spent for persuasion)OOC
Thu 17:13
Dice Validated
5D10 Dice Roll: 1; 9; 7; 8; 7*the little Mockingbird thought it over, and agreed*
Thank you, beautiful Mockingbird. I will return here tomorrow night for the first patron we must seek out. *Rayne stood and glided back to the street and headed home*
*Tuesday night, Rayne once more went into the Umbra, and sought out her new friend Mockingbird first. Together they travelled to the umbral reflection of the city dump. There, she found the first of 2 patrons she sought out.*
*The great Trash Heap Spirit, another of the city spirits, stood (or more piled) high above Rayne's head. With Mockingbird translating, Rayne began a persuasive pitch for help.*
Oh Great Trash Heap, I beseech your help in an endevour of great import. Our once beautiful caern is now dishelved by heaps of rusting bulks of old ships. I ask great spirit for your help. *Rayne looked up at him, sincere in her need*
*his voice bellowed across the dump* What is it you ask of me?
*Rayne, in great respect, got on her knees* There is an area of Gaian's caern that refuses any efforts to be cleaned. With your help, great spirit, the refuse could be used to increase you status. Many of the wreckage have been out in the waters all over the world. Your knowledge would increase. And taking it in for yourself, the waste would increase your already great size and strength as well as your standing among the other spirits.
OOC
Fri 15:55
Dice Validated
4D10 Dice Roll: 4; 4; 7; 10*The great Trash Heap Spirit looked skeptical, so Jedi tried another twist*
*staying on her knees, still in respect, she continued*
I will be speaking with the Spirits of Recycling. They think they would do a much better job in turning the waste into something of beauty for the caern. *trying to persuade him as him and recycling often competed with one another*
(WP spent for persuasion)OOC
Fri 16:04
Dice Validated
4D10 Dice Roll: 7; 7; 9; 8*she awaited for the spirits decision*
*Wednesday night, once again she went umbral and met with her friend the Mocking bird spirit. Across the Umbral Reflection they travelled til they found the Recycling center reflection. Here she found the small recycling spirits, much like hermit crabs but with shells of great beauty, working to make the discards into things of beauty.*
*Jedi knelt down, with the little Mockingbird on her shoulder to translate, and began her negotiations.* Most wonderous of spirits I beseech you to listen to an offering I have.
**the little crabs turned and watched her and listened*
I am in need of your great skill. There is an area of Gaia's caern which desperately needs something of beauty there turned from the scrap that lies about.
*they all spoke in unison* Go on.
The area is covered with a great deal of rusted recyclable metal. Metal, I know, you could turn into something wonderous for Gaia's children to behold and love. In exchange, your gift will be revered by all of Gaia's children in the caern. Your name will spread upon their lips for your help. We must hurry though, for the Great trash heap will be sending raiders to steal your material soon if you don't hurry. *using the competition between the two spirits to spark more of an interest*
(WP spent for persuasion)OOC
Fri 16:15
Dice Validated
4D10 Dice Roll: 10; 6; 3; 10*she awaited the spirits' decision*
*once she was done, decisions made and the week over, she went to the GE for his final decision*
(ge)
The Grand Elder, Balance without Fault, has of course kept watch on the progress. The Ragabash has proved herself persuasive, and gains the aid of the Great Trash Heap's helpers for the week. She is equally persuasive for the recycling spirits, and there for a day or so it looks like it is working. But as the helpers pull back and leave, assuming their job is done with the beautifying of the small area, it begins.The new recycled materials begin to crumble. The area begins to decay, the stench begins to return. In a few hours time, the area is not just the way that it was, but worse.
Balance without Fault studies this, then faces Electric Jedi. "While I applaud your ingenuity in gaining the help of other spirits through persuading them to aide in your cause, you have forgotten one very key bit of information. Within the challenge it was stated that it resists all forms of cleaning - thus we had tried many of these, and failed. A Keeper of the Land must maintain all aspects of the Caern and the Bawn and be in tune with them. So tell me, Electric Jedi, why did you not think to examine the Umbral side and find out what exactly the root of this decay is? Without that information, you are treating the symptoms, not the problem."
He pauses, and lets that sink in a moment, before he takes her umbral, and points behind a certain puddle of sludge, to the Jaba the hut-esque spirit lingering there, muttering about replacing his things, and how he'd just gotten them set back up from the last time, having his sludge just the way he likes it. Jaba doesn't bother to look their way, just continues destroying all that was recently fixed, and replacing things exactly as they were once again.
"Perhaps you were too quick to find a solution, that you neglected to look at the full and complete problem. It is my opinion that in neglecting to deal with the grumbling spirit first, but merely repeating what those before you have done, that you have failed this challenge.
That is my word on the matter, but majority will rule on this, as in the other challenges. Council?"
[One more time guys - cast your vote!]
(bg - jukebox)
"I 'gree wi'h th' Gran' Eld'r."James' chin tips up - Eagle style - in recognition's gesture towards Balance Without Fault
associating his own reasoning with that already spoken in markedly clearer tongue
given the Adren's own recent encounters with a strikingly similar education
it takes little time for the Gnawer Elder to voice his decision"The effor' notew'rthy but nah broad 'nuff a' solve th' probl'm. Challen' fail'."
(uktena - yu gan)
Yu Gan tilts his head when the results are listed off. Looking to the area with a flick of the ear. He traveled the umbra in the caern many times a week as the Quick patrolled with thier gifts of flight there. He'd never seen the sluge spirit that seems to have manifested visibly now.Contemplation of the task given and the results. And the reasoning there for. Then comes his reply in the language of wolves.
"The task was given for the young Ragabash to deal with the marked area. Arguement could be made that she did just that. She delt with it. It was clean. Then the spirit came back and made it worse. While the.. implication was of a more lasting solution, the grand elder did not situplate such. It was simply "Deal with it. You have a week." The area was delt with. Even if only temporarilily. It was outside intervention that reduced her efforts.
The Ragabash tried. Her efforts did work even if only momentarily. The lesson I would belive has been learned to view both sides. I'm curious myself as to why this spirit has been suffered to be here if it was previously known, but that is neither here nor there.
I have a hard time failing her totaly on this. The LETTER of the challenge was followed if perhaps not the intent. It was a sort of "Trick question" And while for Truth Catcher or Master of the Challenge. *He nods to those garou* Might be expected to have such, the Keeper, not so much.
Maybe it's the Ragabash in me that allows me to see things from the dark or flip side... but I would not fail this challenge... Effort was made. The LETTER of the challenge was compleated. Yes it's fairly clear now that the Grand Elder was being tricky.... but his trickyness is limited by the fact that she did do what she was "told" to do. Vs what she might have been "MENT" to do.
*The Uktena shook out his fur, as he was usually in lupus in the caern.*My official vote is ....... difficult. Clearly the spirit remains... but the letterof the challenge was compleate. I would not 'pass' the challenge nor would I fail it.
I would say further exploration is required to determine if this is a one time abboration or a lack.
Seeing as we have noone else challenging, perhaps this can be done. As said before by Silence-rhya, though not pertaining to THIS garou, "It's better not to have anyone than to have somone who would fuck it up " (( Or close to it))
We need to see if this is such the case.
(fenrir - decker)
Decker snorts loudly. And Yu was usually the cleverest of them all, too."She fucked it up, Yu. She ain't even thought ta look what's wrong before tryin' ta fix it. Tryin' hard's good 'nough fer kindergarten, but not fer tha Get. We'da won this fuckin' war already if it was.
"Fail." He's already walking off. He's spent too much time in the caern lately, listening to one challenge after another.
(yu)
Yu bows his head in responce to the Adrens words. His opinion was as well, valid. Yu's vote one of many. And they all tended to look at things from their own upbringing and points of view.That is why there was a counsel.
(fianna - sandman)
The Sandman considered for long moments, not openly discussing his thoughts like Yu Gan. Both the Uktena and the Fenrir had valid points, and James saw them. While Electric Jedi made an effort, it didn't last, and therefore James had to vote based on the grand scale of things."Fail."
(coggie - leroy)
"We Children of Gaia always seek the fair notion, to the point of absurdity perhaps even. Hell, it is one reason we are mispercieved as weak by others. True, the miaghty Fenrir value only excellence. Yet yore lengths of failures are remembered and tallied among their famed Galliards. I applaud rather Jedi, for the Keeper of the Land can be of any Auspice, many though percieve it best served by a Theurge. And as such, she was tested rather I believe upon that very notion. Perhaps she should have tricked the spirits?" He chuckles. "However...Since the council seems so inclined to deny, respecting rather the ideals of one Tribe over another. I say..why not Jedi...re-challenge. I do not see any others rising to the occassion. If you succeed or fail then..I will answer. For there is not one amongst us who has never failed in a tast or quest given. We all sometimes must try again at one point in our life. Some more than others may wish to admit. Try again"
(walker - nelly)
She stood silent, watching and listening for some time."I would agree with the many of opinions and judgments given, each has its own validity. Yet Rhya Yu's shows us all what has been overlooked in the challenge itself. Rhya LeRoy also makes a valid point...
So I neither pass nor fail, but second, or third as it is, a retrial..."
(fury - syndel)
The Fury thought for a moment, taking in the others opinions before making her own. " I support the retrail. As no one has shown interest in challenging for the position and I beleive another attempt would not be any less difficult, if she is able to pass it will be enough. "(jukebox)
Electric Jedi could probably consider herself lucky Jukebox had more patience than his packmate
as Fenrir's Adren stalks off, the Gnawer's own version of the rank keeps his seat
slight curve at one corner of his mouth all that risks exposing otherwise carefully silenced amusement
as far as the raggedyman is concerned, everyone that's spoken thus far holds equally valid opinion supported by equally valid reason
their apparent need to bring up and defend the obvious is what has him wondering
last he checked, there was no rule limiting Challenges to the first time"Jus' cuz she fail this roun' dunn negate'r option a try 'gain roun' two." muscular shoulders roll in stretching shrug "None've us here c'n claim solving [b]ev'ry[/b] pro'lem we've faced on'r firs' try. No Garou's perfec' 'r all knowing."
..... otherwise they'd all be right there beside the Get with this War already won
James simply possesses enough tact to avoid drawing attention back to that venomed response
the reference should be easy enough to discern as it is"Learnin' a'void th's same mistakesss on'r secon' go'z wha' makes th' diff'rence. I won' stan'in Jedi's way shou' she choose a challenge 'gain nex' cycle."
wouldn't they all be doomed if it were in Garou's nature to accept defeat after only the first fault
(sl - milo)
Milo's verdict comes after a few moments thought and consideration of the other Elders' words."Electric Jedi did fail this challenge, and in her failure I see an ignorance of the most basic duty given the Keeper of the Land. Our Caerns, the most sacred places of the Nation, are where both sides of our reality meet. By ignoring an entire half of the land, one that a Keeper must pay attention to just as much as the other, she has shown why traditionally this role has been left to veteran Garou born of the Crescent Moon. Those of other auspices can and do fulfill this role, yes, but they must embrace the principles of connection between the spirit and physical that the traditional holders are trained to heed instinctually." His tone is flat and firm.
"Fail, though I do agree with Yu Gan that her ambition and willingness to try her hand at such a difficult position be rewarded with another chance to challenge in a few cycles. Perhaps she would also be more likely to succeed at this challenge after taking this time between now and the next to act as a... 'faux' Keeper? The Caern could use an extra pair of helping hands, especially without a named Keeper, in the meantime, no?"
(fs - virago)
Virago listens as each council member speaks, her face impassive as she regards them and the garou who had challenged. Electric Jedi is not known to her in any real way - her skills in any areas, her temperament, her pack - like those who had gone before in the challenges. The difference is, those who were voted unanimously as completing their challenge? Had done so competently, and on this basis they were accepted. That they were new and not known to the others, while questioned, was not made as much an issue when they proved ability in the position they sought.
Not so, for Electric Jedi. Stranger and failure, both.
Two strikes.Tribal difference does not even seem to irk her, when she finally and clearly speaks up. "I am in agreement with the Shadow Lord elder. Regardless of auspice, that she has not sought to look umbral in this task is a surprise to me and one mistake that should not be made by the Keeper of the Land. It is obvious she is not ready for this position - as indicated by the results of the challenge. I say that she fails."
More quietly, she adds, "While I do not stand in the way of Electric Jedi challenging again - I would suggest if she do so to be more prepared to recognise that the umbra has much impact on this side of the gauntlet, let alone the ability to deal with the issues that arise from it. Should she wish to help maintain the caern until that time and learn, then she should do so."
But not, it seems from that tone, as faux Keeper. She can wait until the position is earned.
(ge)
There are times when he is glowering. There are times when he's leveled the heat on his gaze on each of them. But through it all, he is silent. When at last he does speak - it is with a thrum of deliberately controlled anger. That he wants to snarl and act like Fenrir is obvious. That he does not, is what makes him the Grand Elder."Some would suggest that the challenge was a duel edged blade. I will not explain the challenge farther other then to point out it could have been easily tackled, had one taken the time to find the problem. Why it has not been yet, is immaterial. Perhaps that, too, would have been discovered if proper steps were taken. The challenge was hers to discover or fail.
"I did not say she did a bad job - just half of one. I would not commend a Theurge for slapping a band-aid on a gaping wound, any more then I will commend this treatment of the symptoms without finding the cause. Electric Jedi showed poor judgment in jumping in without proper research. Granted, there will be times when we have to do the quick and dirty and come along later to finish the job - but when given the time to truly tackle a problem...
"And, since apparently the obvious must be restated over and over... Never has there been a position where one can only challenge a single time. Not even mine. By suggesting that she needs to retry, you agree she failed. Electric Jedi, you are welcome to challenge for this position again at a later date, if you so choose. Should you wish to follow the Shadow Lord's suggestion and learn while here, that is agreeable - without the title. The Sept can always use another set of hands.
However, as you pointed out, yourself, Yu, it is better to have the position empty, then filled with one who cannot do the job."
And with that? The Grand elder walks away.
Meeting over.
[end]
Posted by james at July 09, 2005 12:00 AM